Gamer Entitlement

Discussion in 'Ask PSLS' started by Spycke83, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Spycke83

    Spycke83 PSLS Level: Bronze

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    I`m wondering what you guys think of this newish trend of gamers feeling they are entitled certain things from a game or developer. Or as a gamer what do you feel entitled to?

    I think it is rediculous that we live in a time where gamers think `this game sucked, I should sue them` let alone the gamers winning. If you don`t like the game you soent money on, return it, i know not all stores have a returen policy but if they do then return it. If they don`t, talk with your wallet, stop buying games from Gearbox or Sega. This entitlement certain gamers feel is not good for the industry as a whole. Devs will stop trying something new and games will get stale if they are afraid of getting sued by the people they are trying to entertain.
     
  2. Chandler Wood

    Chandler Wood Get Off My Wood Staff Member

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    It is a terrible trend, and something that I am not proud is part of the gamer culture. Where do we get off changing things? Just because I don't like the Mona Lisa, doesn't mean they ought to paint over it.

    Also, money. There are some gamers that expect to get everything for free, and assume that anything paid is just an attempt at greed by manufacturers and developers. We need to seriously get over that mentality, and understand that things cost money. If you don't want them, don't buy them, plain and simple. When I buy a car, I don't expect to get the premium upgrades without paying a little bit extra.
     
  3. Lifewish

    Lifewish 중재자 Staff Member

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    I really don't have much to add onto Chandler's except that a lot of the blame goes on the gamer for feeling entitled but even more falls on our "justice" system that allows for crap like this to even be anything. This guy should have his case dismissed and then be slapped with a fine for wasting everyone's time and money.

    I really wish a big company like Sony would fight this and not settle, but another thing wrong with our justice system is that it is cheaper to settle than pay damn lawyer and court fees..
     
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  4. Hybrid Extreme

    Hybrid Extreme PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Hi Spycke83. I'm not a staff member or anything but I'd like to respond to your excellent post if I may.

    I've been posting on the forums for a while now that we live in an age of entitlement. I think it sets a bad precedent for the gamer community as a whole. However, I don't think the fault completely falls upon the gamers themselves. In large part it does, but some accountability from developers themselves must also be mentioned. It seems odd (like its finger pointing) but its not. In my observations its a shared system of enabling and mis-communication coupled with unrealistic expectations, inconsistency and greed on both sides.

    How many times have you seen or heard game developers say to their fans, "You told us what you wanted and we listened." I see it quite a bit. Developers trying to please the masses. They don't want to lose their core fanbase (or the revenue they generate) so they do what they think they need to do for their fans. This actually causes a negative reaction. What used to be feedback has now become a list of demands. Capcom is the greatest example of this. Capcom listened to feedback and with it created Resident Evil 6, the game that only had one fault. It tried to be too many things to too many types of gamers and in doing so, lost itself in the process; but it was entirely based on inconsistent feedback, mis-communication and Capcom enabling it's fanbase to feel like they were entitled to make demands on the developers. For all of that pro-active listening Capcom did, they produced a game they thought gamers wanted and were cut down worse than EA for a while after RE6 came out. Personally, it was one of my favorite games on the PS3 and I provided no feedback to Capcommunity. Go figure! Gamers have learned over the years (for better or worse) how to control the industry. Developers have learned over the years (for better or worse) how to capitalize on their core fanbase. In both ways, it always comes down to greed. Entitlement after all, is just a kind of greed.

    In other scenarios you have company A giving their DLC away for free and company B charging for every single piece of content. Gamers react to that. Why is one company charging while the other isn't? This creates confusion and misunderstanding. It also creates a system of entitlement where gamers feel that if one company can give their content away all companies should. Another issue is when gamers have the attitude that they paid full price for a game and should be entitled to all extras for free. This attitude is based in part on the company A and B scenario I mentioned.

    A very small part of it is reluctance to change which is basically where particular gamers want things just like the way they were back in the PS2 era where a game is sold as a complete product. Some gamers take exception to content for games being sold separately post release. Those numbers are likely very few nowadays but still, those gamers feel entitled to own the game and it's contents as one all encompassing purchase.

    Entitlement is greed plain and simple. Gamers think the industry somehow owes them. Look at shows like E3 where hard working developers put on amazing presentations only to have the gaming community judge and critique them like they were running for presidency.

    Nothing is, or will ever be, good enough for those who feel entitled. This isn't a partnership between game makers and game players, it's a relationship, and a relationship based on greed can only ever end badly!

    My apologies for the long read. I'm fairly passionate about the topic! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
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  5. Spycke83

    Spycke83 PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Thanks for the reply. I was asking opinions from anyone, staff or not, and it is great reading a well thought out answer.

    I think entitlement has really taken off since social media has become such a huge part of peoples lives. I think very few people would have taken the time to write a letter and mail it off to a developer complaining or demanding things. Now that every dev or publisher has Twitter or Facebook anyone can post there and have the world see what they think or want.

    Now with my next thought keep in mind I live in Canada and I`m on the outside looking in.
    It seems as though a lot of gamer entitlement is in the US where a lot of the devs are. It is my opinion that a lot of frivolous lawsuits are filed in the US. There has been some in Canada but the US seems to have more. I think that this helps entitled gamers as the devs, publishers or manufacturers will ofter cave in since they know a clase action lawsuit is most likely coming thier way if they don`t.

    I don`t think there is a way to stop this entitlement but I think if the companies stand up for thier work and not give in it will help reduce it.
     
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  6. Jacky

    Jacky PSLS Level: Silver

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    It actually annoys me a bit, gamers who think the company owes them, make the rest of us look bad. They act spoiled and childish. gaming is a privilege, and a past time ment to be enjoyed by everyone.

    Just because a game sucks or has bad graphics doesn't give gamers the right to complain or sue. They should be happy the companies are even putting out games.
     
  7. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    What's wrong with complaining?

    A lot of developers are like "We heard your complaints, and we're patching" or "We heard your complaints and the sequel is coming out with this new feature!"

    I can't access Hohokum even after pre-ordering it. Not freaking out or anything or complaining, played P.T. instead, did some Guardians of the Galaxy Pinball now that I watched the movie, and gave me time to come back on the forums XD.

    Developers do need to know what people don't like about a game, otherwise you might not get a better product next time. It is kinda rediculious to charge like $3-4 dollars for an outfit or they don't offer DLC bundles, to save you a bit...

    I have called Sony and gotten some refunds when I buy a game and then less than a week later it's on sale. They credit me back, and I spend the money on 2 games instead of 1. Stores have a price match policy in a lot of cases where if the game is on sale a week after you buy it they'll give you the difference. Which is great when a game comes out, and you buy it day 1, and then a week later it's 10 dollars cheaper on Plus. Really? Couldn't have just had it launch with a Plus discount? You'd expect it'd stay full price for at least a month.

    These however are all different from entitlement. I do think Developers should respect their customers and at least offer a "Buy both get a discount" bundle if they can't offer a full on Cross-buy offer ESPECIALLY when something is Cross-Play and Cross-Save. $60 sounds reasonable. $80 feels crazy, $40 would be preferable. This goes for FFX/2, Dragon's Crown, and Ragnarok Oddyssey. Do I choose to play the game comfortably for hours, or the Vita which makes my hands hurt after a while, and the possibility of Local-Ad Hoc at some point?

    Is it really so much to ask that the games be offered at a savings when you buy them together? Did Dragons' Crown need to be $90 at release? Especially since despite it not being cross-buy its' free to Plus members on Vita and PS3? I'm much more likely to buy a game if I can buy once and play how ever I feel.

    No "Well I might want to stream the game. But I might never get around to that"
    or
    "The PS3's broken friendlist might be an issue"
    or
    "This might be a game I'm gonna want when I'm not at home"
    or
    "This might be a game I want to play with 4 people, and I don't have that many PS4 controllers here (kinda being fixed now)"

    I bought almost all the Zen Pinball tables since you get almost all of them for free on other platforms, and that's amazing. However I haven't dumped any money into Pinball Arcade since it's not Cross-buy which means spending money on the Vita version and one the PS4 version when I could just buy a Zen Pinball Table and not have to mess with all the decision making.
     
  8. Hybrid Extreme

    Hybrid Extreme PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Its funny how yesterday I made this quote in my post: "How many times have you seen or heard game developers say to their fans, "You told us what you wanted and we listened."

    This morning, not even 24 hours later, I watched the EA Gamescom press conference where Executive Vice President EA Studios Patrick Soderland stood on stage and in referring to the fans said, "You challenged us, and we listened." (At the introduction of the Battlefield Hardline presentation)

    I don't recall studio heads, execs and developers using those kinds of words back in the good old days of video game press conferences. And if they did it was extremely rare. Was it because gamers didn't have the out of control level of entitlement they do now? Yes. Was it also that social media is so immediately available and accessible that literally millions of opinions and perceptions can be shared or discussed in a way that didn't exist before? Yes. Which leads me to your post. You're 100% right, social media has essentially changed everything. Feedback used to be delivered by fans writing letters, stuffing them into envelopes and physically mailing them to their game company of choice. Nowadays feedback, or as I call it (deconstructive criticism & the list of demands) is immediate.

    You're also correct when touching on the subject of lawsuits as Lifewish also posted about. There is seriously something wrong with the justice system when a person can file a 5 million dollar lawsuit over the advertised resolution of a video game and be taken seriously by the courts! And in that case it's hard to tell who is greedier, the one filing the lawsuit or the lawyer who agreed to take the case! :)
     
  9. Chandler Wood

    Chandler Wood Get Off My Wood Staff Member

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    There is a significant difference between simple complaints and feedback, versus entitlement.

    Feedback is good. Expecting that the developer owes it to you to change things based on your feedback? Bad.

    Wanting a good deal and complaining when you have to pay extra for DLC or Non-cross-buy games? Good. Feeling entitled to get every bit of DLC for free and every multiplatform game as cross-buy regardless? Bad.

    There is a line, and gamers are constantly crossing it without understanding the merits of business, creativity, budgets, etc.
     
  10. Hybrid Extreme

    Hybrid Extreme PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Your last sentence says it best.

    As I see it, very little feedback is ever constructive nowadays. Entitled gamers wanting it all have turned what should be positive feedback into mass ranting. Its not the smartest voice that gets heard, it's the loudest, and those two don't always match up!
     
  11. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Your post just made me remember why I dont' go to Playstation Blog anymore to read the comments.

    "What is with these NES Graphics it's a PS4 for crying out loud!" said a man with Strider in his username on Spelunky post.

    "Apparently charging $50 dollars for a 1 year old game wasn't enough, now you have to charge for DLC" said someone on The Last of Us Remastered talking about optional Multiplayer acessories...

    "I should be able to transfer my character from PC to Console" on Battle.net blogs for Diablo 3

    "Blizzard is just lazy, making D3 RoS UEE run at 900p instead of 1080p on the Xbox One" as if they'll notice the resolution difference enough to make them not enjoy Diablo 3 and thinking that the Xbox One is just as powerful as the PS4 (something no developer has ever said)
     
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  12. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    There are sometimes giving feedback and expecting the developers to do it, is ok. Like on Final Fantasy FXIV they kinda broke end game a bit.

    All they have to do is give 1-3 allied seals per FATE you complete, to make it feel like even though you're not getting an Atma drop you're at least making some meaningful progress otherwise they are just wasting your time when you could be hunting and making you choose between a weapon, and everything else for 3 weeks rather than do both at once.
     
  13. Freakyhijiki

    Freakyhijiki PSLS Level: Bronze

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    You mean developers aren't making games specifically for me!

    I think the entitlement attitude is a product of our society. Most people just can't be pleased and are always going to find something to complain about. There have been many times I have been pissed about a certain aspect of a game, but never went to the lengths some people go to. For example, OlliOlli pissed me off because of the crash bug and I was really hoping for a patch sooner than it came. I understood they are a small developement team and patiently waited to play the game to avoid frustration. I felt entitled to recieve the patch because I bought the game, but never held any animosity toward the developers. I think a rational thought process is what will curb this trend of entitlement in the gaming community.
     
  14. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Rational thought process?

    Most people don't know what a rational thought process is. Catholicism, Christianity, Jewish Culture, Hinduism, Islam, Racism, Sexism, Aliens, Demons, when in human history has a rational thought process, been realisitic?
     
  15. Hybrid Extreme

    Hybrid Extreme PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Rational thought process - the invention of poutine!
     
  16. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    All I can think about is poon tang (if you don't know the slang it's basically the keyhole) when ever you mention Pountine.
     
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  17. Hybrid Extreme

    Hybrid Extreme PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Same effect! Poutine has been known to be a natural aphrodisiac! :)
     
  18. stolenxnametag

    stolenxnametag PSLS Level: Kraken PSLS Ambassador

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    I call it the Mass Effect Effect
     
  19. smireles

    smireles PSLS Level: Newbie

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    As an old gamer (30+ years) I still find hard to believe that some millennials actually think they deserve everything. This problem isn't only about videogames, is about how younger generations take for granted they satisfaction in all aspects of life. It is sickening. And part of the problem is how parents, or consumerism behavior protect and facilitate these bad practices.
     
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  20. stolenxnametag

    stolenxnametag PSLS Level: Kraken PSLS Ambassador

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    I have to agree!
     

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