PS Plus Hate

Discussion in 'PlayStation Central' started by MakaiOokami, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    That's why I get super pissed when people say "I didn't buy a PS4 for Atari Graphics" on stuff like Spelunky coming to PS4. You try to explain to them how hard it is to have completely 3D models on a highly technical platformer and it goes over their head. They start talking crap saying I must be new to gaming. Yet my trophy score is in the 20s they are barely at the point to where it takes 8 platinums from start to finish to go up 1 level, and act like I don't have more hard platinums than they have platinums.
     
  2. Swordsman

    Swordsman PSLS Level: Bronze

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    saw your trophy profile. 2 platinium caught my eye, demon souls and disegea 3.
     
  3. Farsendor

    Farsendor PSLS Level: Newbie

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    Indie games can be a whole lot of fun just like AAA, not sure why so many people think Sony are going to giveaway 60$ games.
     
  4. Lifewish

    Lifewish 중재자 Staff Member

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    Because we live in a time where gamers feel they deserve the world for nothing.
     
  5. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Pardon me for doing so, but I'm just going to skip the rest of this thread and reply strictly to the original post at the moment. ^^;

    Frankly, I've been bitching about indies lately, but not just for PS+, but for the PS4 as a whole. I've confirmed several titles from major developers on their way in the coming months, but it feels really late. I keep seeing all of these indie titles (especially sidescrolling platformers that almost all look the same) being released, often exclusively on the PS4 (PlayStation-wise, I mean), and it just seems like such a waste of the PS4. (Not to mention many of these titles have been available for PC for a pretty decent length of time, and for a fraction of the price that PSN lists them at. Although I guess that's nothing new, really.)

    But on the note of PS+, the PS3 -- and even Vita, to some extent -- has been getting plenty of major-developer titles in its PS+ free game library, while the PS4 has been getting almost exclusively indies. I think this is probably where the hate you speak of stems from, and I think it's a problem that goes back to what I mentioned above. The PS4 really just doesn't have much of a library to it at the moment, nor enough of a... history? (hasn't been out for long, I mean)... to be offering major titles for free just yet. (Most free AAA titles are older ones, so it's not like they're full $60 games for free.) Hence, mostly indies being given so far. As I mentioned above, I really think the PS4 needed more major titles (other than inFamous: Second Son and... whatever shooters) upon release or shortly thereafter. Day-1 buyers/upgraders are getting impatient, I'm sure. What's done is done, though, and given time, there are major titles on their way. As they roll out and make sales, I imagine some should start showing up in the PS4's PS+ free game library.

    ...Uhh, I guess that's my two cents on the subject? Kind of a general comment to anyone reading; not just you (Makai).



    That guy definitely sounds too amusingly contradictory to be anything other than a troll, though, lol. But, uhh... trophy level 10-12 is "super low?" <.<; I almost feel insulted, having only reached 13 or so recently, myself, haha. (From what I can tell, there's a steep incline in trophy requirement for leveling up beyond 12. A lot of people hit it like a brick wall and stay there for a while.) Granted, I do have an ever-growing backlog that needs some work... ^^;

    Personally, while I do clearly have complaints about the PS4's current game library, I do try to occasionally give indies a chance. Hell, I was super-excited when I heard that Dust: An Elysian Tail was coming to PS4, and would've gladly paid for it if it wasn't offered for free for PS+ members. Got it on PC a while back and enjoyed it immensely. But generally speaking, indies kind of seem like a gamble, and when money is involved, I'm sure others feel the same way, and are thus reluctant to give them the chance that many of them deserve. (Actually, offering them for free via PS+ kind of encourages giving them a chance, really... The problem is just that it's almost exclusively indies these days, for PS4, when a lot of people are looking for bigger titles, like what you can find on the PS3.) It's also a matter of the type of game, though. A lot of indies these days follow similar formulae, and they may not necessarily cater to a lot of more "hardcore" gamers.



    Actually, there seems to be a sort of interesting pattern going on these days, where a lot of "old-school" gamers are spending a lot more money and time on indies than AAA titles, and discussing some of them as if they're the "new" AAA titles, so to speak. Sometimes, this seems to come from the simple fact that many older gamers are in a point in their lives now where free time is sparse, as is leisure-spending money, so these smaller titles with lower price tags are more appealing and quicker to satisfy a desire to play something entertaining with what little time they have. I'm sure there are plenty of other factors at play, but that seems to be a pretty big part of it, from what I can tell. So, really, that troll's comment about you allegedly being a "newb" is rather invalid, because it's actually mostly the older gamers, who have been gaming for years now, who are really into a lot of these indies. (On the other hand, I think it's safe to say that a lot of newer gamers -- i.e. people who only started gaming during the PS3/Xbox360 era or current gen -- are the ones who are less interested in indies and the like.)

    ...Kind of went off on a tangent here, didn't I? ^^; Well, I think I covered just about everything I wanted to here. I tried to at least break this post up into different sections for each topic covered, so hopefully it's not overwhelming or anything, and generally of some worth or other.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
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  6. stolenxnametag

    stolenxnametag PSLS Level: Kraken PSLS Ambassador

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    Nailed it, in my opinion.
    Children generally behave as children, and many adults play the same things they've played for several years. The 18-32 age demographic is the most coveted market out there since they have the most perceived purchase power, so I think it's easy for a lot of devs to pump out 2D platformers and hope for the best. Unfortunately, the side effect of this is that Sony likes to use these titles for PS Plus to engage the people who have the most capable abilities to buy their flagship console, the PS4.

    It's a mixed bag. I like getting free games every month and do not feel entitled to 12 solid AAA titles annually for only $50, but it would be nice to have some more variety. It is hard to justify asking for more, but I do not guess it hurts to do so.
     
  7. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Ok a couple things.

    1. The reason why the trophy level thing mattered was because he was telling me I was a new gamer when I was like 10+ levels higher than him with platinums in Demon's Souls and Disgaea 3 as well as 17 others.

    2. We are getting Drive Club, and I hear it's a good game, so once they fix the server issues and release the PS Plus version for free won't that count? You can apparently get the platinum without spending any money allegedly.

    3. Some of the most fun I've had on PS4 is Towerfall Assension, Fibbage, and Sports Friends with friends locally.

    4. The first game you're likely to get free for Plus is Battlefield 4 so that they can sell you DLC as well as trying to get good PR for Battlefield 5 since they screwed up the launch and subsequent months on that game to the point where they consider the brand irreparably damaged and they are likely to want to fix that.

    5. There's only 10 million PS4s sold, and basically if you bought a $400 dollar console they expect that you can afford a decent game library. Where as a $200 dollar PS3, and so many games constantly releasing for the PS3 it's much less likely that you can afford a lot of the older games, plus the PS4 isn't even out for a year.

    6. When was the last product release where Early Adopters weren't shafted? I guess you could kinda say the PS3s, because of backwards compatibility but then again you also paid $600 dollars for a 60GB HDD system. I waited till just before the 3DS got a price drop and then bought it, so that I could get a price match for the new price, and get the free games.

    7. We aren't even done with the first year of PS4. It's not like Sony is intentionally telling developers "Don't release your games we want to promote indie games" It's just that there's only 10 million units, so games that cost 30 million to produce, or even 5 or 10 million to produce kinda won't get their money back unless it's not a PS4 exclusive.

    8. How many developers went out of business last gen because they would put all this effort into new and interesting games, and then not quite get the sales they needed and then get shut down? Indie Developers or at least small bite sized games help keep innovation but without bankruptcy.

    10. Why are people dropping $400 dollars on a console before the games they really care about are released and then complaining that there's too many small games to give them something to play in between big launches? Is it better to just not have games for 2 months because it takes a while to make AAA games? A lot of these games are on 3 year development cycles, hell even Activision has 3 different devs rotating on Call of Duty so they don't have to rush as much.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  8. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Yes I did just make a subtle 7 ate 9 joke. (yes that is the reason I have 9 bullet points)

    What it basically boils down to, is that people act like these aren't games worth having. As if they aren't fun, they suck, they're poorly made when these games are higher quality than games we used to pay $50 dollars for back in the day. Indie developers really work hard, and they work with limited resources, and everyone gets upset because the games don't look super realistic, and don't have enough EXPLOSIONS!

    I just get tired of that. We have so many of these games, because the PS4 is a lot like a PC, where as the PS3 is a lot like a Mac with super specialized hardware. During the PS3's launch you'd WISH you had more games like this. This has been probably the best console launch ever in terms of game quality over the first year. It usually takes 2-3 years for a console to hit it's stride, and about this time we were getting games like Heavenly Sword, versus Infamous Second Son. Lair compared to War Thunder. Super-Rub-a-Dub, Gauntlet, and Joust, versus Dust an Elysian Tale, Castle Storm, Spelunky, and Pix the Cat. Undeniably better games at better values.

    People forget how rough the PS3 launch was coming off of so many amazing PS2 games.
     
  9. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    1.) Oh, I understand why you pointed it out. I was just joking that I felt inadvertently belittled due to my supposedly "super low" trophy level, haha. A lot of you guys on here seem to have pretty "crazy-high" trophy levels, as far as I'm concerned, and I generally think I'm a fairly hardcore gamer, myself. <.<;

    5.) I'm not sure if you typo'd somewhere in there, but I'm a little confused... You're saying by spending half the amount on a system with more games on it, you -- the consumer -- wouldn't be able to afford more games? Or were you referring to game producers releasing games exclusively on the more expensive system with fewer games vs. double-dipping, and the profits of both approaches? Or if you're just referring to Sony's expectations for big spenders on the $400 PS4 to be able to afford the more expensive games, then... releasing a bunch of cheap indie games seems almost contradictory to that, lol.

    7.) Don't get me wrong; I totally understand the PS4 is still young. As I said, I feel that the launch line-up was pretty weak, in terms of new major titles (although that's also partly due to my lack of interest in some of the ones that were released upon launch or shortly after), but I acknowledge there are definitely more major titles coming out in the coming months. By no means do I intend to call it a garbage system just because it's taking a while to build a respectable library. I was just sharing a few personal gripes (many of which will be resolved in due time) as well as trying toss out some ideas of how others may look at the matter, to get an idea of why they're upset, however irrational and/or unreasonable some of their reasons may be.

    8.) Yeah, I do recall a number of them. Innovation definitely needs to remain a part of the business, in whatever form it can exist in. A lot of companies these days seem terrified by the idea of straying from the mainstream big-sales game formats (namely because of said bankruptcy risk), but they should try to gradually change things along the way -- that'd be the safer way to do it. Some companies will just go head-first into a completely new and creative game, and wind up taking major losses as a result, although some are fortunate enough to benefit from the same kind of risky approach. It's a gamble, and a pretty big one at times. Indie titles most definitely do help to mix things up a bit, and at a lower cost to both producer and consumer. However, even a lot of them seem to just go with the flow of the market and pump out a bunch of same-ish games, in hopes of making a quick buck. There needs to be more variety all around. And as far as exclusives go... it's a necessary evil. Yes, when you make a game exclusive to a low-sales console, you're running the risk of not making enough of a profit for the production to be worthwhile, but at the same time, exclusives are what are going to give consumers the incentive to get a newer console. (Why pay $400 for a PS4 and $60 for a new game, when you can get the same game for $40-50 on a console that costs half as much? Personally, I don't think 1080p vs. 720p alone is a good enough reason for it.) The producers of the consoles and the games need to work in tandem to help each other's sales. ...Ideally, anyway.
    ...Okay, so in a way, this is kind of what they're doing. Kind of. Indies that are pseudo-exclusive to PS4 (elsewhere, it's usually PC, and that's a rather different market altogether), which, in theory, should give consumers the additional incentive, while reducing the risk of major losses on the producers' end(s). It's a step in the right direction, although they should probably aim to have indies (or otherwise smaller titles) produced specifically for the PS4, rather than just taking pre-existing titles from XBLArcade and/or Steam.

    9/"10".) Yeah, as I said before, I think a lot of people are just being impatient, and hoping for some other major titles to be released while they're waiting for the ones they specifically bought the console for. Personally, if I hadn't found a decent deal on my PS4 like I did, I was going to hold off on getting it for a while, since I already knew that most of the titles I wanted for it -- AAA or not -- weren't coming out any time soon. It's mostly a Netflix box for me and my mom to watch stuff after work, currently, haha. (I do have a few games for it, though, of course.) And, honestly, I wasn't expecting any different when I decided to buy it. I ordered it for the deal, so that I would have it ready when the games I want do get released, and at a reduced price.

    High five, for the 7-ate-9. =p

    Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mentioned in my previous post that even I'm a bit wary of dipping into the indie market much, but that's mostly just because many of the types of games that come from it simply aren't my style (or, at least, don't appear to be). This may apply to many others out there -- especially the ones who buy a PS4 or XboxOne primarily for stuff like Call of Duty, inFamous, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, etc. -- but I can only speak for myself, really... I mentioned above that many of the older gamers are more open to indies and the like, so a lot of the younger (or otherwise more recently engaged in gaming) crowd is probably just frustrated that they're not seeing more of the AAA titles that they want (yet). People just need to be patient, and spend their money more wisely, rather than going with these major impulse-buys and then throwing a tantrum when they don't seem to be worth it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
  10. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    As much as I hate to double-post, I think a separate post seems a little more organized, in this case. ^^;

    I'm not sure if I've given a false impression here... I don't mean to be joining the side of the haters, haha. I'm just trying to highlight both sides of the argument as much as I can. Personally, I'm patient enough to wait for the games that I want. I even acknowledge the value in many of these indie titles, whether I personally enjoy them or not. Regardless, I do feel like the developers are doing something wrong here... (I can only guess, and I've shared some of said guesses and general comments in my previous posts.) I just hope these issues will work themselves out in due time (which I'm sure they will). I don't regret my purchase of a PS4, and am looking forward to the future of it. I just hope some of the complainers can learn some patience and make do with what's provided until the library starts to expand and more exclusives start to show up.
     
  11. Farsendor

    Farsendor PSLS Level: Newbie

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    For me indies offers a different type of gameplay experience than AAA games so I enjoy seeing indies on PS+. I would like to support the indie scene on ps4 by actually buying the titles but AAA games are taking up most of game time.

    We will see AAA games on PS4 but i'm pretty sure it will be the weaker launch games like Knack. Knack is a cool family game but i'm not sure if i'll ever go back and play it completely through.
     
  12. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Knack is the cool family game that is also reviewed poorly because it can be hard as balls at times. XD

    So you kinda need a good player as the first player, and the kid as the second more easily revived character because you lose one you lose both.
     
  13. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    I understand their arguments but their arguments are childish. The following are similar to arguments I've seen before, shortened up for my own personal pleasure. You don't have to read, I just think it's a good summary. The answer to most of their problems is "Get PS3 games" "Get a PC" or "Wait before you buy a PS4 till the games you want a PS4 for are out"

    I don't want to play old style games - ok then don't buy them

    I don't want indie games from PS Plus - ok then don't subscribe for the games until the ones you want release

    I don't want small titles I want big grand AAA titles - Sorry those take time to release and there's hardly any PS4s to justify the cost of making games like you want.

    I didn't buy a $400 dollar system to play iPhone like games - Yeah and people don't buy $1000 dollar PCs to play those either, butt hat doesn't mean you can't enjoy a game like that on a $1000 dollar rig.

    Sony is just using indie developers to flesh out their catalog - so they should be like the Xbone and have barely anything?

    I don't like platformers - Fine there's tons of games on PS3, go play that.

    There's no games - Then why'd you buy it?

    I should be getting $40-60 dollar games for PS Plus not $10-20 dollar games! - For $4.16 a month you want thousands of dollars worth of games rather than hundreds? Isn't that a bit greedy? Besides get a PS3. Solved!

    But I want 1080p I want ALL THE P! - Then spend an extra couple hundred and get a PC and get a monitor like this

    http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&cs_id=1130703&p_id=11441&seq=1&format=2

    And have more fucking P than you can handle! 1080P has nothing on this!

    But that's too expensive - Well you wanted all the P.

    I sold my PS3 to get a PS4 and now I have nothing to play! - Why did you think you could afford PS4 games if you couldn't afford a PS4 when the PS3 has a huge library of affordable AAA games that are a bit older?
     
  14. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    I feel like there should be a "give her the P" joke somewhere in here.

    Jokes aside, though, yeah, a lot of complaints are... uneducated, let's say. I'll fully admit to having my fair share of complaints about how things are being handled, but at least I'm aware of the faults in such complaints. I understand, at least to some extent, the business side of things, and why certain decisions are made, so I know it's (mostly) just a matter of time. People need to understand that video games, like any other media, don't just miraculously fall from the sky. There are very specific processes involved in production and distribution, and consumers should educate themselves on the details of such things, rather than just ignorantly complaining that they're not getting what they want, when they want it, etc. Entitlement and all that jazz. Respect the process and those who are involved in it, and with any luck, you'll get what you want when it's ready.

    Alas, such a thing is a losing battle, and exists outside of the gaming industry as well. Can only do one's own part in educating others, and hope it reaches some people and spreads from there.

    For what it's worth, some of what you've said has either informed me or reminded me of things I'd forgotten, so cheers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
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  15. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Cheers.

    I have almost no complaints on the PS4. Then again I also love indie games and ended up playing Steamworld Dig (One of those "iPhone" games people don't want on their PS4) and had a great time with it. Tiny Brains isn't the best game for example. However I got it for like $10 on sale, and played it co-op and damn did we have a fun time.

    Cross-buy, $5 upgrade to Minecraft, PS Plus games most of the time being good games, sales, money back offers on the playsation store, getting Infamous First Light free because I earned enough rewards points from Sony Rewards, I guess my biggest complaint on PS4 is that they didn't give us a 1 TB drive option right away and I'm almost out of room. XD I don't even mind throwing Sony $5 once in a while to do Music Unlimited. Last thing I need is to use up the last bit of my hard drive space with music. Even though custom soundtracks on Kickbeat PS4 the way PS3 had it would be nice.

    I'm too busy enjoying my PS4 to be upset about little things like themes not being out yet, and too much time enjoying indies to complain about them. Glad I could remind you of the important things. Which is why I made this post initially. To rant, and to remind people of what we should be thankful of.
     
  16. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Oh yeah, this certainly deserves a mention. While the app was available on the PS3, I don't believe you could run it in the background like on the PS4, correct? Very cool feature. Have used it quite a bit. If I didn't have a 32 GB microSD card on my phone, I'd probably fork over the additional $5 for the mobile access as well, hah.

    Actually, multitasking in general is a very nice feature of the PS4. (Also, related: a browser that actually works.) Alas, that's getting somewhat off-topic. ^^;
     
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  17. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Well for using the Music Unlimited on PC and PS3/4 it's $5, but for mobile access and Vita (I think Vita can do custom soundtracks that way too) it's an extra $5 a month.
     
  18. Chalryn

    Chalryn PSLS Level: Bronze

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    Yeah, I know.
    Emphasis on "additional." =p Thanks anyway, though.

    I'm just sticking with the basic $5 plan, to use on my PS4 (and occasionally on PC). Most music I'd want to listen to on my phone, I can just put on the card, anyway (if it's not already on there). No sense in paying $5 to listen to music (in limited locations, when not on Wifi) that I can already listen to normally (plus more not available on MU) on my phone, y'know?
     
  19. MakaiOokami

    MakaiOokami PSLS Level: Bronze

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    you used to be able to upload your music collection to Music Unlimited like iTunes had
     
  20. Farsendor

    Farsendor PSLS Level: Newbie

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    I would eventually like to see a high budget/mainstream game released on PS+ ps4 but i'm happy with what they are offering.

    Also does anyone know if I'll be able to plug my Galaxy s4 into the ps4 to play music with firmware 2.0?
     

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